120Hz PC Gaming – On a TV!!

Tv gaming – most people think of it as just for console players. Or, at least they did. Nvidia at CES 2018 got the PC gaming world super excited about big-screen gaming when they showed off their 65-inch big-format gaming displays, or BFGDs and then promptly gave the entire community a serious case of the blue balls when they announced that they wouldn’t be coming until sometime later this year. Well, what if you don’t want to wait until later this year? Good news – because mostly under the radar there has been a way to get high refresh rate gaming in your living room, on a big-screen TV, for months. The vizio p series runs at 120 hertz and you can buy one today. But there are some compromises – so are they worth it or should you keep waiting? World of Warships is a free-to-play historical online combat game from Wargaming, featuring an exciting blend of action and strategic gameplay. Stay tuned later in the video for an exclusive offer. ♪ (Upbeat electronic music) ♪ So the 65-inch variant of Vizio’s flagship P series behind me here uses a VA panel. That means that you can expect good, if not industry-leading viewing angles, color gamut, and overall image quality. But – and this is important for gamers – it also means better pixel response times than a typical IPS. And, at normal viewing positions those other disadvantages melt away somewhat, in light of its 120Hz capability. So, it’s pretty compelling, at least on the surface. But it still requires some further investigation. High advertised TV refresh rates are typically just motion interpolation – an effect that subjectively looks terrible, and objectively introduces additional input lag, so it’s really bad for gaming. But I mean, the panel itself, like many TVs today, runs at 120Hz natively. So what that means is that, if a manufacturer chooses to expose it, separate from any motion compensation nonsense – which, by the way the P series doesn’t have, anyway – the TV can, and will, accept and display a true 120Hz input. With a catch – Hdmi 1.4 doesn’t provide enough bandwidth to run 120Hz at our panel’s native 4k resolution. So we’re stuck at 1080p. But – I mean if you’ve ever played around with a retina resolution calculator, you probably know that unless you’ve got eagle eyes, the difference between 1080p and 4k on a 65 inch tv can be difficult to discern from further than about ten feet away. So this might still be viable, but we need to answer some questions first. Will 1080p to 4k scaling cause blur and quality degradation? How is the input latency of this display in its various modes? And what about the rest of its features? So to answer, we grabbed our test bench and our 8k high-framerate RED camera, and a seat on the couch. We started with our biggest problem with other TVs – input latency. And we’re happy to report that at 120Hz in game mode, it was basically imperceptible. Subjectively speaking, it was actually pretty close to other 120HZ displays that we’ve tested, and using our Makey-Makey, we measured an average end-to-end delay of roughly 40 milliseconds, regardless of game mode. So it could be better – but it is definitely acceptable. Bumping up our resolution though, we see a jump to 78 milliseconds – though it should be noted as well that this was with game mode on, and at 4k, game mode did end up making a difference. So, this is still not too shabby for a TV and it’s fine for casual games, but to say we could tell the difference between high refresh rate mode and 4k would be an understatement. As for image quality, again it’s pretty good – it’s not OLED but its blacks are deep and, thanks to the 128 zones of local dimming, contrast stays high even when it’s dealing with small bright objects on a dark background. The app experience is really cool – it’s got a built-in Chromecast that Vizio is calling SmartCast, and it pairs quickly with Bluetooth 4.0 and uses Wi-Fi to actually do everything from powering the tv on and off to accessing all of its settings. So fire up that app, turn the sharpness setting to zero, and for the most part, enjoy your TV. For the most part. The scaler – well, it’s not horrible but it’s not gonna blow anybody away either. It is certainly no M cable. Though with that said, if you’re using your TV with a PC – as we’re kind of proposing here – you may actually prefer it that way, since it does prevent the text anomalies that the M cable can produce in its current form. Now with five HDMI’s and a component input, though, we aren’t stuck with PC gaming all the time. Modern consoles will run about like you’d expect, so actually better than a typical 60Hz tv with high input lag, but not as good as switching to 120Hz on a PC and as for retro content? well, at lower resolutions, you’ll see a big drop in quality as expected – blurry text and characters with no obvious way to improve it, and unfortunately that sharpness function doesn’t help, it just puts a sharpness filter over top of it, and as for 720 and 1080p modes, on a Super NT, we actually got pretty clean results. Tl;dr: if you can pre-scale your retro games you will actually get some pretty darn good results here. And in fast 2D games, it gets especially good if you enable the Clear Action backlight-strobing function. This reduces visible motion blur at the cost of some brightness. So bottom line, then. High-performance big screen gaming – what do you do? Well, LG actually has a couple of OLED models – the C7 and B7 that have this same 1080, 120Hz functionality. But i would recommend against gaming on OLEDs – not just those ones, but in general, because bright, static on-screen elements, like huds or speedometers are very, very likely to cause permanent burn-in – bringing our options, then, back to the P series here or waiting for Nvidia’s partners like Asus with their BFGDs. So with a BFGD you get variable refresh rate with G-SYNC, which is kind of a big deal. You get 120Hz at full 4k resolution –
assuming you have the hardware to run it – and you get even lower input lag, with an Nvidia Shield console built in. However with the Vizio, you get instant gratification because it’s available now, a well above average big-screen gaming experience, and a pretty darn good TV overall. Also, if my speculation is anywhere near correct, and I think it is – you also get a price that is anywhere from one half to a third of what Nvidia’s solution will cost, so… The P series is actually looking pretty darn good. Let us know in the comments which one you’d prefer. Thanks to Wargaming for sponsoring this video. World of Warships is their free-to-play historical online combat game that fuses strategy, tactical gameplay, and engaging combat all together. You command a massive naval fleet, including some of history’s most iconic war vessels, level up your important tech modules, and prepare to dominate the oceans. They’ve got four classes of ships, a bunch of upgrades and strategically designed environments so the action never ends and every single match you play is different. Since launch they’ve actually added over 200 ships across eight nations, and they feature some of the most iconic warships in naval history such as the HMS Monarch and HMS Iron Duke. The first 300 viewers who use code PLAYWARSHIPS2018 – we’re gonna have that down below – are gonna get 252 doubloons, a million credits, the HMS Campbeltown premium ship, one port slot and three days of premium time through the link below. Although, the offer applies to new users only, so move fast. So thanks for watching, guys, if this video sucked you know what to do but if you liked it, hit like, get subscribed, maybe consider checking out where to buy the stuff we featured at the link below. Also linked down there is our merch store – it has shirts like this one – and our community forum, which you should totally join. Go join. It’s great. It’s free.

100 thoughts on “120Hz PC Gaming – On a TV!!

  1. been that way for years with vizio, there tvs typically have good input lag and have been running a real 120hz for a while. ive had mine for 2yrs almost. it will run 1080p at 120 hz and 444 not 442 with 12 bpc color depth. pretty damn good for a 65in tv i paid 1,200 for 2 years ago 🙂 (on sale)

  2. sorry i will never buy a visio tv  problems are just to much locking up, blacking out having to unplug it to get it going again because the remote will not function when it is locked up and this is in smart tv mode trying to watch youtube. crackle, and other net content. this is a 40". never again, and i mean never, dont believe me check out the reviews on you tube about visio  tv's and their troubles. i even bought a power strip to shut it off to reset it so it will work again for a few minutes to a couple hours. because i can not bend over to unplug the cord. even the switch at the back of the tv does not work to turn it off or on when it has a fit.

  3. I was enjoying pc gaming at 1080p/120hz at 20ms response on my Vizio p series in late 2014. Was I ahead of the game for once or am I missing something?

  4. I have one of these minutes in my living room and it's amazing. Brought as the best alternative to OLED for movies. THEN later I saw Linus drop this video and I now have e a dedicated living room gaming PC instead of a console

  5. Burn in on OLED TV's is complete bs. In order to cause burn in you literally need to be like paused for like 2 hours on the same frame, to cause burn in on a OLED you need to intentionally do it, it most likely won't be caused on its own

  6. Sitting on a couch while PC gaming, the difference between 4K and 1080 with 4x SSAA on a 65" TV is negligible – even for a videophile.

  7. The Sony X900F does pretty much all of these things and then some. With only 7ms input lag at 1080/120hz, 20ms 2160/60hz, and 40ms at 1080/60hz. One of best home theater purchases I've ever made.

  8. Those TVs from Nvidia will be out of reach to 98% of pc gamers. The ROG TVs from Asus will be out of reach to 99% of pc gamers.

    What sucks is they’ll lose their asses on them and wonder why leading to them no longer making them or trying to make them affordable..here’s a start.

    Make some 1440p instead of 4K, 40in-55in and definitely“NO stupid Nvidia Shield inside the TVs.

    Give it the same functionality that a decent monitor has. Don’t even need a internet connection or Bluetooth or anything that comes on a modern smart tv.

    We just want big fu*king displays that exceed 1080p that have G-sync and a decent gaming refresh rate. Simple as that. A Shield in a TV that your going to hook a gaming PC up to?…..so arrogant.

  9. Linus. is the LG – 55" Class – LED – SK8000PUA Series great for PC gaming ? it claims refresh at 120 and upscale 240. please help I am looking for a 55 inch that will be awesome for pc and for Netflix and such Thru PC. I watch all my tv through my PC so everything i do will be PC input via 1080 GTX EVGA 8GB. I want a great 55 inch tv for PC that is $1000 or less with no burn in.

  10. Burn in has only ever been a real issue for commercial installations that show the same content all day every day. E.g. It was a problem for CRTs in the old arcade machines but who ever got burn in at home from gaming? It might be an issue for OLED if it is used for digital signage but for gaming, it will be just fine. OLED is awesome!

  11. I researched the hell out of this and bought a 75" p series a year earlier than this video. Killer gaming monitor. Would buy again if this one crashes.

  12. Most sony tvs support 120hz. Mine 4 years old sony 40 inch fhd tv supports 1080p120 using hdmi2.0. My 10 years old sony 42 inch LCD tv supports 120hz at 1080p via D-Port (not in hdmi 1.2)

  13. wonder if you guys have or can review one of Samsung's 2018 displays claiming native 120hz.. NU8000 4K TV or QN55Q6F Flat 55” QLED….. It would probably get great views like this video, I'd sure watch it. I understand other have claimed "high refresh rate" in the past. so i'm wondering if this is for real. There is a video of a guy playing his xbox one x @1440p @120hz on one of these, but is it really what someone in the PC community would call true 120hz? is this just for xbox one x or will it work with PC as well? it supposedly also supports freesync which is compatible with xbox one x as well.

  14. Wait a minute, I'm able to play 60hz on a 50inch samsung and LG tv at 4k cough cough, and it's a steady 60hz, with a flimsy evga 1080.

  15. When you have not idea about Mhz and what a frequency is, you will be victim of commerce, advertising, capitalism. iF your brain notice an object crossing the screen in miliseconds: you need a doctor.

  16. Hmmmm…..kinda neat, but I doubt this display will do huge numbers on the market, against its competitors like Samsung, Sony, LG, etc. "True" high refresh rates via the cable input (adjusted in Windows) is mainly only useful for PC, and in this case the PC enthusiast that game on big screens, aka a niche market. Without any motion processing built in its still gonna look like a blurry mess on the shelves (unless a store demo can save it) next it its 4k counterparts. Cable won't look good on it. Sports in general won't look good on it. Consoles can't take advantage of it. The G-Sync with films is neat. However, that 24fps film standard is an old standard, but looks blurry when there's too much motion, or panning. Say what you will about modern high refresh rate TVs but once you get used to them they do look way clearer and smoother in your living room in comparison to watching the same films in traditional theaters. The G-Sync will save them from the 3:2 judder pulldown so at least that's a good thing. Newer TVs can do high refreshes via the panel (motion interpolation) much faster than their older counterparts so most console gamers don't even bother to turn motion smoothing off, as they don't even feel the input lag (plus games look way better.) Professional gamers (the ones that compete for money) definitely don't use big screens so they're out of the question. Don't even get me started on the OLEDs, and QDot displays. Unless Nvidia gets that price right….this thing won't stand a chance on a TV market, unless they market the hell out of this thing!

  17. My 7 year old 720p optima projector that I bought new for 500 bucks and at 125" screen still blows away the gaming and movie experience of any of these fancy large flat screen televisions with fancy features. With my klipsch 5.1 surround and demon receiver, the experience is second to none.

  18. Great show very informative. I think Samsung has some really good options as far as TV are concerned they have 120 Hz TV with low input lag .why not review the samsung NU series or QLED as far as gaming is concerned

  19. Do you have another TV to recommend? I bought this TV and I think you have PSA to make regarding how BAD VIZIO is with their warranty.

    Long story short, I bought this TV based on reviews of how great of a solution this TV is for 4k HDR10 gaming, only to find out that when my TV failed VIZIO's response was they don't support computers output to their TV.

    Is there a TV that is comparable, or better than this TV? I'm done with VIZIO. 🙁

  20. The best part about this @linus tech tips is that if you had bought a cheaper tv like the TCL or Hisense, Element you’d get way better input lag lol. Talking 7-13 ms.

  21. I bought the PQ65 cause I couldn't wait any longer and the price was under $1400. All I can say is pure 1080p 120hz 4:4:4 HDR 12bpc (10 actual) gaming bliss. It's truly gorgeous in motion and I rarely set a game to 4k unless to test as it looks and performs so good. Mainly use the 4k for movies. Don't regret my decision one bit.

  22. I have a Samsung UN55Hu9000 4k tv said to have 120hz refresh rate. On my pc all I get an option of is 25hz. My graphics card is pretty dated. 560Ti. Is that my issue? Maybe need a newer cable? I have no idea what version HDmi it is currently.

  23. I have an LG 65UK6470 … a 4K TV and when i turn the resolution with a PC to 1080p … nvidia control panel says 120Hz …. when i come up with the UFO Refreshrate WEbsite, it also says 120fps/120Hz …. is it really 120Hz ? How can i tell from the UFO Test ? I see the UFOs fly and the 120fps UFO has less motionblur or stuttering than the 60fps UFO …. is it really 120HZ ?

  24. IDK what anyone would be complaining about. I've been gaming at 1080p60 on tvs for years. I've never even used a gaming monitor. Fast paced games like League of legends, overwatch, or BFV dont have enough latency to prevent me from getting kills or playing properly.

  25. Love my 4k 50" HDTV for gaming. I play and win at competitive games with no problem. PubG, BO4, BF5, RL…you name it, it's better on a 50" 4k from 3ft away. I can tell you when I'm at work and have to use my laptop for lunchbreak gaming, it's incredibly difficult to see things in the distance as compared to the home setup. Bigger is better folks. Plus, it's a TV as well.

  26. Been gaming on a tv for 4years now ,it's not the best visuals are very poor (ghosting,tearing and washed out visuals etc.)but runs my games great,apart from King Crysis which changes from 60 to 24hz don't know why

  27. 930e can do [email protected]!!!! made a huge difference from getting 45fps at 4k . now getting around 85fps on shawdow of tomb raider. game looks sooo smooth and sharper than at 4k. not using a game mode. standard mode has the best upscaling which will make your 1440p look like 4k. and alot more fps. just change resolution in game setting and u will get 120hz

  28. Been gaming on a Plasma for yeaaaars.. The burn ins dissapear after a while. Never had any permanent.

    Are OLEDS worse than Plasma in this regard?

  29. i game on oleds and there is no problem ! stop bulshitting linus :d there are methods to mitigate that like pixel orbiter on my tv

  30. "….If you've ever played around with a retina resolution calculator, you probably know…"
    LMAO, can't say that I have, Linus. It does sound like a great ice-breaker on a first date though! <3

  31. There's a class action lawsuit against Vizio for spying on it customer oh, that's right the hidden camera spies on you. Now I suppose that could be remedied if you know where the camera is you can put a piece of tape on it but that just adds extra work that the TV has to do, and it's all for their benefit because they get to see which brand of snacks you're eating so they can sell that information to other corporations at the expense of probably more input lag display lag and all kinds of b***** that contributes to the deterioration of quality of Gaming which we did not see in the old days will the tube TVs with zero display lag oh, and I might add you can spend the million dollars on the TV and you will never get zero display lag like the tube TVs because all the modern TVs have this inherent problem, I believe even the best gaming monitor for PC as a minimum of 8 millisecond display lag oh, now for us console gamers we are in a bit of a problem for those of us who have very fast I hand coordination and quick-twitch muscle we are going to have a lot of serious problems with this oh, it's like we were created by the Anunnaki and everything is in slow motion for us, if you're one of those Gamers who was always on top of the leaderboards in the Run Gun small map console games then you know exactly what I'm talking about for all you slowpokes go back to sleep or whatever you were doing like trying to spot the differences or similarities in the various snowflakes falling from the sky oh, okay for the old schoolers let's move on, I want to collaborate on the big manufacturers to create a real gaming TV for us quick-twitch very fast I had coordinated individuals of all ages, and no frills setting that basically shuts down any kind of pretty effects cameras smart functions I mean absolutely everything except what is needed just for gaming, we're talking about one single connection straight to the display, and of course a maximum size of TV can't be expecting 50 to 60 inch TVs would low display lag oh, that's why I'm thinking 42in might be reasonable, and right from there but together the ideal Industrial grade TV minimal display lag oh, this is obviously a little born talk for console Gamers who dream low latency TVs, of course oh, now it's pretty sad to find that the Xbox One controller is completely wireless no matter what whether you go wired or battery so there's really no benefits except that you have constant full power, which has nothing to do with direct wired signal of inputs that you make on the controller directly to the console, which I think probably is a suck Factor, which I'm sure is contributing to some amount of latency, so I'm thinking about putting something together really that involves Microsoft and the TV makers to get rid of this crappy lag oh, let me know what you guys think

  32. World of warships lol…World of delusional pricing for its ships, can buy a AAA title for the price of a single ship, those guys need a reality price check! – remember free to pay games are costly!

    anyhoo wayback in about 2008 i bought a samsung series 7 tv with a 5ms second response time and excellent color, loved it for PC use! Even at its then hideous price.. in saying that, I've bought 3 cheap models that have come and gone under warranty… all failed 3 or so years.. its disgusting. get what you pay for i guess.

    The world landfills must be full of 1000000 of designed to fail tv, no 20 year tv life cycle like old crt tv's. its a rip for joe public.

  33. Best gaming TVs are actually from Samsung as they have very low input lag, true 4K, HDR 10+, freesync, no image burn in problem, nice va panels, much better dimming zones, better motion handling, VRR etc.

  34. I have a 2300 euro tv 65inch sony 4k hdr xreality and shit can i play on this black ops 4 man? How bad is the response time ? I think it has 35ms input lagg

  35. I don't really care about 4k (I'd rather just stick with 1080p for now since all my movies are that size, and I'd rather have high FPS while gaming), any 1080p 50-60" tvs capable of 120hz for PC gaming?

  36. I actually own this TV, it would be awesome if xbox had a mode for 1080p 120hz but it's the game developers who optimize performance settings and I don't think any of them have wasted time on such a niche option

  37. Wait, you mean I need an ACTUAL 120hz TV for responsive gameplay? How do I even find a rare native 120hz Full Array TV anyway? I hope the Vizio P series come up with 1080p Full Array native 120hz TVs.

  38. Oh yeah, consoles like the Xbox 360 have the HDMI 1.4 limitation. 1080p 120hz or 60hz 3D, 3D oughta be useful for Sonic Generations.

  39. 40ms is the lowest? If you can't get 20ms or lower just use it as a non-gaming tv, its just not worth it.

  40. I’m going online to research buying a tv or large monitor to game on….

    And literally NO ONE lists the fucking refresh rate! Something so important isn’t even in the specs!!??!!!!

    Wtf is wrong with these companies

  41. I've been doing all my PC gaming on a 2018 Samsung Q7. It'll run 1440p at 120hz and 60hz @4k. Its a great set.

  42. I’m using my Samsung qf6n at 120hz at 1440p. 9ms response time at 1440p with game mode. I’d recommend this tv.it supports FreeSync as well.

  43. Anyone like me who is still stuck at playing early 2000's games in low end PC with an intel 82945g video card?

  44. Anyone like me who is still stuck at playing early 2000's games in low end PC with an intel 82945g video card?

  45. Console gaming works great on Samsung Q8 65 inch curved. the HDR keeps games running at 120ghz while looking great. Going to be building a AMD ryzen 7 3700x & RTX 2070 Super. I’ll be uploading a review on my Channel. Subscribe to find out.

    Samsung Q8: un65ks8500f

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